tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post2863527295600848394..comments2024-02-23T05:17:08.682-05:00Comments on The Film Freak Central Blog: Fuck YesBill Chttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14011398543859221282noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-36825466858308430502008-07-24T13:31:00.000-04:002008-07-24T13:31:00.000-04:00I still haven't seen Dark Knight, so ... Stephanie...I still haven't seen Dark Knight, so ... Stephanie Zacharek on <A HREF="http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/07/24/film_critics/index.html" REL="nofollow">the Death of the Critic.</A>Jefferson Robbinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05356665406917571985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-14594341045722332562008-07-23T23:15:00.000-04:002008-07-23T23:15:00.000-04:00That was my first impression at the end of the fil...That was my first impression at the end of the film as well, that where Joker seemed to be someone who had fully realized his Ubermensch (hence he had no backstory) at the beginning of the film; Bruce realizes his Ubermensch (Batman) during the course of this film. In that way this film seemed like the second act of this saga. In Batman Begins, like in any first act, we are introduced to this Zero Summerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11602781977302699931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-37263068403238452472008-07-23T22:13:00.000-04:002008-07-23T22:13:00.000-04:00Sure, but the sermon-like ending of the film celeb...Sure, but the sermon-like ending of the film celebrates what Prashin (with whom I must respectfully disagree) has called "the escape from the Ego" in a form that resembles what psychoanalysts have called the Death Drive, the flattening of man into principle -- living martyrdom. Of course, the difference between "meaningful life" and "living martyrdom" is more tonal than anything, but there seems Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-53639158699919844782008-07-23T21:10:00.000-04:002008-07-23T21:10:00.000-04:00The highest ideal of the film is not martyrdom, it...The highest ideal of the film is not martyrdom, it is a meaningful life.Zero Summerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11602781977302699931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-58344425376109057152008-07-23T21:06:00.000-04:002008-07-23T21:06:00.000-04:00See I don't understand that line of thought. How i...See I don't understand that line of thought. How is not wanting to kill thousands of other fellow men an act of "passively accepting whatever fate that has been lined up for you"? That is a fairly cursory reading of the scene. The choice in the scene is not that of 'live vs. die', but that of 'kill vs. die'. It doesn't say that it is impossible to have a meaningful life (the assertion of two-faceZero Summerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11602781977302699931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-32423855153822284112008-07-23T12:32:00.000-04:002008-07-23T12:32:00.000-04:00I find it completely irrelevant if the choices mad...I find it completely irrelevant if the choices made in the boat scene are realistic. I don't think that's a discussion that is worth having. What is relevant is that this behavior is idealized by the film as being "good". That the film puts martyrdom as the highest moral choice. <BR/><BR/>Again, the film is deeply nihilistic. It says that it's impossible to have a meaningful life and the most oneAlex Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13028946403342782184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-61538996182535115252008-07-23T10:01:00.000-04:002008-07-23T10:01:00.000-04:00Call me cynical, but I find it easier to believe t...<I>Call me cynical, but I find it easier to believe the choice of the one prisoner over that of the businessman.</I><BR/><BR/>The businessman blowing up the boat would have been a nice touch. But hey, your depression-influenced sociological views did not align with the ending, it happens.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00879652646989670889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-91857507520548726142008-07-22T21:25:00.000-04:002008-07-22T21:25:00.000-04:00How did they suspend personal and moral accountabi...How did they suspend personal and moral accountability by voting? <BR/><BR/>I think what berandor was commenting on was the fact that even the loudest advocate for self-preservation on the civilian boat had an attack of conscience and couldn't turn the key; in essence, when push comes to shove, people are good.<BR/><BR/>But really, who actually believes that such a dilemma would be resolved as itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-59907941706213133922008-07-22T18:48:00.000-04:002008-07-22T18:48:00.000-04:00Also, the boat sequence to me was pure Hollywood b...<I>Also, the boat sequence to me was pure Hollywood bullshit. Because in the end, people are good, really, and that's why they deserve to be protected.</I><BR/><BR/>I do not believe the people on the boat were good per say, most of the people on each boat abandoned personal and moral accountability by letting someone else make the decision. It seemed like each person thought that the decision Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00879652646989670889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-32461101509327846542008-07-22T17:48:00.000-04:002008-07-22T17:48:00.000-04:00Hmm... let's see. Maybe in the big batsignal that ...Hmm... let's see. Maybe in the big batsignal that Gordon likes to switch on? In the way Batman appears at crime scenes and is not arrested or anything, even in broad daylight (in the bank)? In the way Batman may interrogate the Joker at a police facility? I really don't know where that idea came from.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08178910224548079394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-51183653261892272282008-07-22T15:26:00.000-04:002008-07-22T15:26:00.000-04:00then the police should have a problem with Batman ...<I>then the police should have a problem with Batman even before he "kills" someone.</I><BR/><BR/>It's mentioned towards the onset of the film that the police dept's official Batman policy is "arrest the vigilante on sight." Dent questions the legitimacy of Gordon working with Batman, and Gordon is required to do so behind-the-scenes, as it were. There's no point where Batman is assumed to be aAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-65253743354094310442008-07-22T15:07:00.000-04:002008-07-22T15:07:00.000-04:00Okay, but no tongue.Okay, but no tongue.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08178910224548079394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-5145682882413099352008-07-22T13:48:00.000-04:002008-07-22T13:48:00.000-04:00Maybe I shouldn't have watched Gone Baby Gone righ...<I>Maybe I shouldn't have watched Gone Baby Gone right before, but to me *that* was a movie posing the hard questions. Batman wasn't.</I><BR/><BR/>I could kiss you for making that comparison.jer fairallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16032172895204505671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-2728246841484810292008-07-22T08:40:00.000-04:002008-07-22T08:40:00.000-04:00So I "watched" Dark Knight. I can't say I liked it...So I "watched" Dark Knight. I can't say I liked it in terms of pure, visceral enjoyment. So it's not really the normal summer comic film.<BR/><BR/>I also think it's a cop out. If you want to make "Departed 2: Batman's gone", then the police should have a problem with Batman even before he "kills" someone. Batman is Jack Bauer, he comes in to extract people in foreign countries, to beat up Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08178910224548079394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-20629220465959413262008-07-21T10:51:00.000-04:002008-07-21T10:51:00.000-04:00I would've agreed with what you said about alignme...I would've agreed with what you said about alignment of Joker's and Nolan's POV, had one of the ferryboats blown up. It is a stealthy manipulation on part of Nolan to have us be fascinated by Joker and shift towards his perspective, until the rug is pulled from under us. Joker doesn't want to kill Batman because he would acquire higher narcissistic quotient by converting him to his own views. Zero Summerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11602781977302699931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-16991471694916678732008-07-21T06:50:00.000-04:002008-07-21T06:50:00.000-04:00The newly-coined diagnosis of Rosenbaum Syndrome w...The newly-coined diagnosis of Rosenbaum Syndrome would have more polemic heft in my eyes if Mr. Rosenbaum were less consistent in his ability to wrest worthwhile insight from the jaws of his contrarianism. <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, I don't think that there's anything anti-populist about questioning a film that so frequently positions its characters to rattle off metaphysical soundbites. For instance, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-49117747067198352792008-07-20T23:08:00.000-04:002008-07-20T23:08:00.000-04:00I think I got a little carried away there. All I'm...I think I got a little carried away there. <BR/><BR/>All I'm saying is, a villain who knows what he is doing and does it anyways is far scarier to me than one who doesn't, or at least doesn't let me know that he does.<BR/><BR/><B>Jonathan Rosenbaum Syndrome</B>: An ailment which causes the patient to like films that they can write about more than write about films that they like.Zero Summerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11602781977302699931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-67433517583771270802008-07-20T22:58:00.000-04:002008-07-20T22:58:00.000-04:00Jonathan Rosenbaum syndrome?Yeah--I have that. Mig...Jonathan Rosenbaum syndrome?<BR/><BR/>Yeah--I have that. Might even be terminal. God willing.Dave Gibsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02066153251478580642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-28382187899485698302008-07-20T22:52:00.000-04:002008-07-20T22:52:00.000-04:00Dave:I don't see what is wrong with 'everyone gett...Dave:<BR/><BR/>I don't see what is wrong with 'everyone getting it', especially if its as smart as TDK. Its not elitism as much as it is just irrational anti-populism. The fact that you hold that against the film requires more introspection on why you go to see films than anything. I call this ailment: 'Jonathan Rosenbaum Syndrome'. <BR/><BR/>Luckily, Nolan doesn't make films so that you can Zero Summerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11602781977302699931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-77133032246966600872008-07-20T22:28:00.000-04:002008-07-20T22:28:00.000-04:00So even though the choice is a terrible one, Batma...<I>So even though the choice is a terrible one, Batman needs to become, in the minds of the criminals he would hope to stop, as unpredictable and dangerous as the Joker.</I><BR/><BR/>Amen. I thought the same thing as I watched it for the first time today. I mean, just imagine how delicious the conflict would have been if the Joker had gone up against Christian Bale's electrifying creation in the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-12440623333770460952008-07-20T22:06:00.000-04:002008-07-20T22:06:00.000-04:00Could we please never use the phrase "Ethics 101" ...Could we please never use the phrase "Ethics 101" again. What is the difference between a simplistic ethical question and a complex one? Am I an idiot? It seems to be just a really glib way of dismissing anything at all related to ethical issues. <BR/><BR/>Anyway, whatever else you say about the film it IS deeply nihilistic. The boat scene is a metaphor for the entire movie. The only heroic act Alex Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13028946403342782184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-29893142287756098982008-07-20T21:10:00.000-04:002008-07-20T21:10:00.000-04:00Superheroes are fables. I don’t know why you’d wan...Superheroes are fables. I don’t know why you’d want to resist this. Fables are not synonymous with ‘intractable’, ‘trite’ or ‘silly’ (see Orwell and Kafka) and they are definitely not ‘static’. Batman has been reinvented and rejigged throughout every decade since his first comic book appearance. If the new film concluded with Harvey Dent strapping Batman to an oversized coin which he planned to Dave Gibsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02066153251478580642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-16006502470610949642008-07-20T15:36:00.000-04:002008-07-20T15:36:00.000-04:00Also this movie doesn't 'pretend to play in the re...Also this movie doesn't 'pretend to play in the real world, as a crime drama', historically it always had. <BR/><BR/>I find that most people who criticize this movie for being 'too real' are those that haven't read a comic book in their life. They went in expecting Chronicles of Narnia and came out with Chicago. Get your shit right, folks.Zero Summerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11602781977302699931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-76075418722983834782008-07-20T15:30:00.000-04:002008-07-20T15:30:00.000-04:00Also about 'Batman needn't have been blamed for th...Also about 'Batman needn't have been blamed for the murders'<BR/><BR/>The reason I thought that was important was because of the copycats in the beginning. This accusation would obviously make him less of a 'hero' and so lesser people would want to emulate him, receding the main problem he had in this one which was his fame propagating more crime and attracting 'better class of criminals'. <BR/>Zero Summerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11602781977302699931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9668842.post-78471652591033878082008-07-20T14:35:00.000-04:002008-07-20T14:35:00.000-04:00This is going back a bit but, re: 'Batman needn't ...This is going back a bit but, re: 'Batman needn't have been blamed for the murders'.<BR/><BR/>Batman's one rule, as the Joker discovers at the end of that truck chase (a pretty brilliant reworking of the penultimate Batman - Joker faceoff from Burton's BATMAN if you ask me), is that he doesn't kill people. If the Joker figured that out, it's reasonable to assume that other criminals would figureAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com