Sorry for the radio silence on FFC's end this week. Speaking for myself, I've been toiling away on the book, putting the finishing touches on an upcoming David Lynch omnibus, and re-watching the entire John Hughes canon for reasons to be elaborated upon at a later date.But it's business-as-usual at the mother site, with Walter's coverage of this year's Aurora Asian Film Festival finally going live, Tennesse Tuesdays continuing apace, and Travis slaying Click.
Off-site, everyone's buzzing about THE ONION A.V. CLUB's recent list of "Classic Movies It's Okay to Hate." Some truly sacred cows tipped therein, though nothing that sent my blood pressure through the roof. I hope this becomes a recurring feature there, otherwise we might just have to steal the idea--not that the designated classics have ever had a free ride at FILM FREAK CENTRAL.
Aw hell, let's steal the idea informally: what piece of IMDb Top 250 bait can you just not get behind?
43 comments:
Before we get into the meat, may I just say that that poster looks positively Indonesian.
Also, one last angry, shaken fist to FIFA referees who believe that sneezing merits a yellow card?
My vote would be for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, or maybe The Sting- in fact, any highly-regarded movie that stars Robert Redford and is not All the President's Men (itself the weakest of the Pakula paranoia trilogy). The man just insisted on being as adorable as possible, and consequently sucked all the edge out of his movies. Where's Warren Oates when you need him?
Holy mackerel, that Indonesian Good Night, and Good Luck. poster is pretty much the funniest thing I've ever seen. I wonder what the one for The Passion of the Christ looks like.
I'd definitely second Butch Cassidy, which I'm finding impossible to sit through again as I attempt to update my review to accommodate the new Collector's Edition. There's not a fully engaging moment in the entire film.
Off the top of my head, would also cite All About Eve as pulling the wool over tastemakers' eyes for over 50 years.
Der untergang and Crash,wich are not that diferent from each other.Those who performe evil deeds arent actually the soulless monsters they appear to be?they have shades of humanity?Oh,and here was i thinking that Hitler and klansmen all came directly from the fiery pits of hell and not from the worst recesses of the human being
One hell of a skewering in that review, Travis. And I have to agree with your sentiments about Redford - he just plain sucks.
I would have to say for me it is Gone with the Wind, which I watched for a film studies night class, and found staggeringly turgid, dull, and racist.
Here's my list and reasons why:
Fight Club (1999) -- I own a copy, but it’s just so juvenile.
The Matrix (1999) – I think it’s a metaphor, what do you think?
American History X (1998) – Really didn’t resonate with me.
Saving Private Ryan (1998) -- Will always remember the first half-hour, but that’s it.
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1991) -- Edward Furlong, ack!
Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983) - Ewoks
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) - Indy was old and tired just like the franchise.
Gladiator (2000) – The movie that destroyed Oscar’s last shred of credibility
Cinderella Man (2005) – OK, I haven’t seen it, but it’s a Ron Howard film.
Shrek (2001) - Made kids movies 1000 times more obnoxious
Groundhog Day (1993) - One of the most overrated comedies ever.
Heat (1995) - I am the only one on the planet that despises the Pacino/DeNiro scene
Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith (2005) - NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
Here's the IMDB's top 250 for reference purposes.
-Charade (Hepburn is overrated)
-Roman Holiday (really overrated)
-Wallace and Grommit: Curse of the Wererabbit (why spend five years of your life making this)
-A Christmas Story (just gross, and not nearly as clever as it thinks it is)
-Gladiator (ugh!)
-Ran (double ugh! Kurosawa in general is overrated; for some reason or another I'm sparing his whiny Ikiru from this list)
-Ben-Hur (rambling length)
-High Noon (deeply anti-Quaker and by extention misogynistic)
-Notorious (pictures of people talking and it hasn't earned its happy ending)
-Vertigo (takes it too easy on Jimmy Stewart)
-American History X (I wouldn't think it needs explanation)
-Monty Python and the Holy Grail (there is no explanation, like or dislike can't be justified)
-Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (have you actually seen it? Laughable)
-Amores Perros (yeah, but no; too slow, the moralism and the adolescent characters in the first story seem like crutches. Not strong enough to break through the Tarantino comparison)
I'm just kind of in the middle about Ikiru, North by Northwest, His Girl Friday, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Walk the Line, City of God, Shrek, Before Sunset, Finding Neverland, Chinatown, and The Conversation.
I got really apoplectic voted when all the nerds voted Fellowship of the Ring into the number one spot. But that didn't last very long, and I've grown to like those movies. They still don't really deserve such high placement but oh well.
Anyway, in addition to what others have said, I'd say Hotel Rwanda shouldn't be on there.
Great cinematography, of course, but we all know that doesn't make a movie.
I didn't know that.
Happy birthday to Jack by the way. Forgive the self-promotion, but members of my message board can check out this tribute I did for him.
Bless you, Travis. You nailed the piece of shit movie perfectly. Hate hate hate!!!
For me, its Cascablanca. Meaningless, stupid, unengaging, pandering - I cannot imagine how this film has what is considered to be the "best screenplay ever."
Gladiator (2000) – The movie that destroyed Oscar’s last shred of credibility
I mentioned this on The Onion board. Am I crazy, but where the hell is this movie considered a classic? I mean, forget Oscar, thats nonesense I agree. Classic? According to whom? All I've ever seen this movie viewed as is an well made historical action piece with Russel Crowe commanding the screen. Something about the decline of Roman society, but that's just subtextual lubricant that makes the CGI tiger fights go down smoother. And what is wrong with that? I think people only start to go apoleptic when its mentioned in the same sentence as prestige. Which it shouldn't be, but lets not hold that against the movie. If that defense makes me sound like a complete jackass, I apologize. For some reason, Russel Crowe fighting a tiger and a fat man turns me from Dr. Jekyl into Fray-boy-Hyde.
As for the IMDB list, I've never actually looked at it before. Lot of recent stuff on there, but makes sense. My DVD collection vears towards the recent, but I wouldn't call it canon.
What can't I stand? Donnie Darko at #100. Just the whole tone of that movie annoys me. Smugly depressed and fatalistic.
Requiem for a Dream I like a lot, but don't think it should be on a top-100 list, unless its the top 100 video art projects that actually use a narrative. And I don't mean that as an insult.
Alex: In the middle about His Girl Friday? Of its "pedigree" its one of the few that truly does make me laugh.
Cheers.
The Spider-Man movies are really plummeting in my estimation lately. They're just so much spun candy, and I don't really feel the motivating tragedy at the character's core. Yes, they make my eyes pop, but once they settle back in my skull, I just get a headache.
I agree with Alex that Gladiator is high-priced shit, albeit with a choice Crowe performance at its core. I am still not sure how he gets teleported from Spain to North Africa, nor how the Roman soldiers get to his house ahead of him in order to butcher his family. This was the film that had me scratching my head throughout 2000 as to what people saw in it, and it's the reason I laugh at/despise Joe Pantoliano's character in season 2 of The Sopranos.
As for Notorious, I agree with Chad. I was just listening to the Billy Bragg & Wilco version of Woody Guthrie's song "Ingrid Bergman," and it perfectly sums up the effect she has on me. I don't care what movie she's in, and maybe that's also why I love Casablanca.
The Imdb.list is more ridiculously subjective and meaningless than most “Best” lists, but I’ll bite. Perhaps with the exception of the Godfather films (although they are not in my short list) none of the “top ten” movies itemized should be near the “top ten” of anything. One needs only to note the proximity of “American Beauty” to “Rashômon” or “Sin City” to “2001: A Space Odyssey” (i.e.-existing in the same space-time continuum) to conclude that the list is more useful as an in-house marketing device for Imdb than as the culmination of reasoned critical thinking. Before I get italicized, I’ll grant that no one has claimed otherwise—but, “Fight Club”? Why does anyone still talk about “Fight Club”? (“Heat” though; I love despite its obvious flaws. So I guess in that case, it just depends on what type of macho bullshit you prefer.) Man, I love lists. That’s why I hate them so.
Also--I love "Casablanca"
Man, I love lists. That’s why I hate them so.
I agree with that sentiment. That's also how I feel about message boards!
Alex, what do you mean by "Monty Python and the Holy Grail (there is no explanation, like or dislike can't be justified)"?
I dunno, I prefer to say that's it's just not on my wavelength. I mean the Knights That Say "Ni" or the knight clumping cocoanuts together before getting into a conversation of how he could have had cocoanuts in the first place, could you prove that that's funny instead of just fucking stupid and exhausting to watch besides?
I don't think that people like the film because of its satirical content. There just isn't much, especially if you're not British. The only time I laughed while watching the film was with the line "He's not covered in shit, he must be a king" (or something like that, as you know I'm not a fan).
I always thought that Walter was wearing his auteur-tinted glasses when he claimed that Notorious is a more cinematic film than Casablanca. Conclusively proving this would involve something stupid like counting camera movements. Not sure that "cinematic" is something that can be qualified and quantified. But yeah, Casablanca always felt a lot more alive to me. And the happy ending of the latter feels more organically tied into the film. Notorious has a cheap Hollywood ending, like they couldn't dare have Grant continue to disown the sullied Bergman.
His Girl Friday never much interested me. I don't think that I much care for Howard Hawks, I don't think he's heavy enough for me. Or maybe I just don't care for Cary Grant. He ain't heavy either.
The Imdb.list is more ridiculously subjective and meaningless than most “Best” lists, but I’ll bite.
Yeah, blah blah subjective. The IMDB list is a relatively objective index of the tastes of most IMDB voters. The IMDB voters, I'm not sure it's unfair to say, represent the brunt of film buffs. They represent the flock. Going against them (whilst it be with Notorious or Fight Club) represents going against the flock.
Their list is of more use to me in determining what I "gotta watch to be in the game" than the AFI Top 100 lists (which are compiled by whom exactly?) or possibly even the Academy Awards.
Whatever you think of it, I bet you that Fight Club is likely responsible for more film school applications than any other film in recent years and so it's kind of important that you see it and have an opinion about it.
Some of the votes in this thread break my heart, but I guess that's the nature of the thing.
For my part:
The Shawshank Redemption
Amelie
American Beauty
American History X
Spirited Away
Sin City
Life is Beautiful
Crash
Forrest Gump
Donnie Darko
Run Lola Run
Mystic River
and Scarface are all some movies that I don't particularly enjoy or feel deserve the accolades they've received. A lot of the other movies on the list that I've seen I'm pretty down with, even if I wouldn't rank them where they are on that list.
Also, you might find this funny/depressing, but here's a review that proclaims Click one of the best American films of the year: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/23/DDGENJI4UT1.DTL&type=movies
That Click poster is more than a little disturbing for more than the obvious reasons of objectification: practically the same inexplicable image (faceless woman with large breasts) appears in Sandler's last film, The Longest Yard. Seeing a pattern here?
Overrated on the IMDb list? Deep well, there. I'll echo Anon's frustrations in the LOTR nerds disproportionately skewing the list. You like the books, you say? Ain't that swell.
Alex, I fully understand what you mean about Monty Python and the Holy Grail, which is a fine, funny movie but not the brilliant piece of absurd comedy that its countless fans consider it. Maybe it's the infinite nerdly repetitions of the various skits in the decades since the film's release, but the truth is that the movie might be too self-consciously absurd without enough point to perk it up. So popular were the Pythons by this point that the expectation for humor-of-the-unexpected may have outweighed everything. Give me Life of Brian any day.
I never considered The Usual Suspects to be all that wonderful, simply because it's another one of those movies that forcibly ushered the big twist into popular cinema; I didn't see it coming either, but it underwhelmed me. (Spoiler.) Not that I felt cheated that the whole of the film was "fiction," so to speak, but like I've said here before, the whole "wasn't that a great twist?" mentality that dominates a lot of these post-Tarantino movies also irritates me to no end. (End spoiler.) Still, I should also probably mention that the new Singer-Spacey collaboration is pretty brilliant; it takes the man/god concept of the Spider-Man series and takes them to the wonderful, allegorical heights that Raimi only touches upon.
Saw Wendigo. Surprisingly wicked. It's good to see a genre-exploratory film especially in an exploitative genre like horror.
When did everyone start hating Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? *Does* everyone? Man, that makes me feel lonesome.
I pretty much hate The Philadelphia Story. It feels like I'm watching a massacre, with what has to be one of the most miserable endings of all time.
My other loathed sacred-ish cow is The Royal Tenenbaums, weird for my fierce devotion to both Rushmore and Life Aquatic. Sometimes it's simply about being unable to stand the characters. Compounding the annoyance: the fact that for awhile, Gwyneth Paltrow in the film was THE object of affection for nerdy guys, despite her basically playing a lump of mascara.
I must agree with the Onion picks of “The Exorcist” and “Caddyshack”. Both of these seemed to pop up endlessly at various sleepovers and Halloween parties throughout my childhood—and, even as a kid, I never much cared for either. Being raised in a religion-free household may have dulled the resonance of “The Exorcist” but mostly, I think about the sluggish pace (especially in those hospital testing sequences) and dated Watergate parallels—guess the 10 year old in me must also assert that it just wasn’t freaking’ scary. (I dug Exorcist III however, which must be a George C. Scott thing.) “Caddyshack” was one of those movies that a lot of my friends claimed was: The Funniest Movie Ever!!! So, maybe it’s just unfulfilled expectations (“The Blues Brothers” is another cult “classic” I find well nigh unbearable)
“Shawshank Redemption”—yeah, probably shouldn’t be considered a classic—but, I still love it, in spite of its vision of prison life as a slightly more violent Bowery Boys flick (Oh! Those lovable rapists and murderers!)
“Carrie” is however, to quote Pauline Kael: “The Shit”. One of DePalmas’ best.
These type of threads always seriously depress me. A list of underrated flicks is always uplifting, though.
Has to be American Beauty for me.
A lot of other films struck the "That doesn't belong here" chord, but none of them ruffled my feathers as much as American Beauty did, all those years ago. I thought then, and still think now, that Bliss is a better exploration of the same themes.
There are probably a lot of movies on the IMDB 250 that I dislike, but flipping through the list, I can't say I'm bothered by much of what is on it. Any list that includes Lord of the Rings, The Shawshank Redemption, The Godfather, Life is Beautiful, Donnie Darko and Harold and Maude reads, to me, like a fairly accurate representation of what a cross-section of various types of film fans would celebrate. It's a broad, general overview of popular cinema, but one that still lists things like Night of the Hunter and Breathless rather than Ace Ventura or Rush Hour or anything like that. Even if Gladiator and Shrek are overrated, there is the sense that the people listing them are still more likely to be discerning, critical viewers than not.
Re: The Searchers--has anyone read Jonathan Lethem's collection of essays The Disappointment Artist, and in particular, the piece on that film? Never having seen the film itself, I at least can now say for the first time ever that I feel that I need to.
Joan: When you say Bliss do you mean the one where Terence Stamp plays a sex therapist or the Australian one directed by Ray Lawrence? It never actually occurred to me before but, yes, the latter is very much a spiritual cousin to American Beauty, and from what I recall much more deeply felt.
Jer: If I could assign reading here at the blog, that chapter on The Searchers from The Disappointment Artist would definitely be on the syllabus.
Shawshank Redemption, absolutely. I don't think I hate it--though I have no use for it--but I loathe it at number 2 on the IMDB. It's a mediocre prison film, IMDB! I would love some kind of explanation of the sociology pushing this thing to the top.
I like Shawshank for the simple reason that Tim Robbins discussed in connection with the film. It's really about male friendship. There aren't too many movies about from Hollywood that take male friendship seriously.
You could also argue it's about our culture's attitude toward art. It's pretty obvious (meaning even I get it)that the Christian warden represents that anti-art, anti-humanity and corrupt forces of our culture.
To look at Shawshank as a prison movie is a mistake.
Is there a realistic prison movie out there? How would you know it if you saw it? Has anybody posting here been to prison?
Haven't seen it, but from what I've heard "American Me" could be one.
Bill: You recently mentioned your affection for Richard Brooks. Just saw "In Cold Blood" for the first time last night. Man, what a great film.
Also watched most of "Five Easy Peices" for the first time last night also. I say "most of" because it was On Demand and it kept cutting out and turning off. Haven't seen the ending yet, but I did punch a nice hole in one of our walls.
There aren't too many movies about from Hollywood that take male friendship seriously.
I hate it when you rewrite a sentence but you accidentally leave half the sentence in its original form, thus making the sentence worse and non-sensical.
I hate it when you rewrite a sentence but you accidentally leave half the sentence in its original form, thus making the sentence worse and non-sensical.
Oh Christ, I do that constantly.
Been a while since I saw The Searchers but I remember liking it, though thinking it inferior to Taxi Driver.
Bill, that would be the 1985 Ray Lawrence film. Of course I haven't seen it since 1985, but I thought of it immediately while watching American Beauty. I don't know how Bliss would hit me today, but at the time it certainly gave me a lot to think about. I guess it's the Pollyanna in me that prefers Bliss to AB: Harry Joy's mid-life rebirth is a lot more uplifting than Lester Burnhams's, even though both of them were trapped in the same kind of successful suburban hell.
Shawshank Redemption is one of my guilty pleasure movies -- I like it in spite of its drawling pace and sledgehammer-like moralizing. But my favorite Stephen King movie is Dolores Clairborn, I think because it wasn't afraid of being truly ugly.
So, yeah- Click looks like it's going to hit about 40+ million this weekend.
I don't understand anything.
So, yeah- Click looks like it's going to hit about 40+ million this weekend.
I don't understand anything.
Crystallizes everything in four short words.
Is there a realistic prison movie out there? How would you know it if you saw it?
My answer to the last part of that one is that if it feels real, then it's as real as it needs to be. Reductive and ripe for deconstruction (nay, deserving even), that's my kneejerk to it. As to the first part, when I first saw the Sean Penn Bad Boys, I felt like I was witnessing the true fana.
I third the recommend of Lethem's The Disappointment Artist, by the way. The man gets it.
Notorious, to me, is a lot more than just people talking. I like the crane down the staircase to the gameboard floor during the party sequence - the interplay of keys and cigarettes - and the burial of emotions beneath drink and earth.
Happy Birthday, Jack.
Not a fan of American Beauty though I was taken with it at the time. Spacey is a fuck of a lot better in the new Superman Returns in any case. Supe 5, by the way, is fantastic: maybe the most melancholy film of the year.
Glad you liked Wendigo, H-Man - pick up Fessenden's first two films in that "trilogy": Habit and No Telling. I've been wanting to do a films of/interview with the man for years now - long enough that I may as well wait now for his new film to be completed and released before we finally chase him down. Big admirer of his - brilliant dude.
I hate The Philadelphia Story, too, by the way - no matter how much I like the central quartet. Ugly picture that's as boring as rust as and meaner 'n a puncture wound to boot.
Not a fan particularly of Casablanca (Notorious being the better version of that story, I'd offer), nor of Michael Curtiz as a director in general. Not a fan of Gone with the Wind, either.
What gets me in some trouble, though, is that I don't really like the original Dawn of the Dead. I think that, until the last one, it was certainly the weakest of Romero's zombie pictures.
Freaks, though, I'd maintain is still one of the more haunting films I've seen about the inhumanity of man; extending to the "ironic" ending when the heroes of the piece reveal, at last, their own ugliness.
Did I mention that Superman Returns is exceptional?
P.S. - new Trench this weekend - echo Bill's sentiment that we're in the weeds and hacking.
Spacey is a fuck of a lot better in the new Superman Returns in any case. Supe 5, by the way, is fantastic: maybe the most melancholy film of the year.
Exactly, Walter. Glad you thought so; don't want to give away too much but I'm dying to discuss the film.
(No spoilers, but a discussion of theme.)
Now, I love Gene Hackman's "greatest criminal of our time" but there's a real bitterness to Spacey's Luthor -- not just because Supes put him in prison, but because he sees the hero's presence as detrimental to the advancement of human achievement. "Gods are selfish beings who fly around in little red capes and don't share their powers with mankind." That sentence sums up a jealous and indignant humanity that exists in the film -- and that includes Lois Lane. It's an intriguing concept explored in a few graphic novels (Kingdom Come; Lex Luthor, Man of Steel) and I'm glad the idea found its way into the film.
Ahhhhh....I am so psyched to see Superman Returns, and especially psyched that I don't have to worry that it will suck, now that Walter has given it his blessing. Yay!
Run Lola Run is an obnoxious monument to the irritating late 90s Eurotrash movement. It's completely unwatchable and grating. It unwinds further on every viewing. I'm glad I saw it for the first time in 2006 so I could be sure that it sucks.
City of God glamorizes the slums of Brazil and looks like something that belongs on the travel channel. The main character of the film has no relevance to the plot!
Memento is repetitive, amateurish, and especially boring. It thinks we're too stupid to understand a plot that doesn't move directly from A to B so it tells us the same things over and over and over again. I can't believe this was considered groundbreaking in a year where Mulholland Drive came out! I thought Nolan was a hack until "Batman Begins" which at least showcases his strength in working with actors...it's not the most visually intriguing Batman possible which is why I am having a hard time giving it **** still although easy ***1/2.
The Matrix-How much does anybody even watch this movie anymore? Maybe the sequels were so bad they undermined my liking of the original but just come on, it's an entertaining popcorn film and nothing deeper.
Hotel Rwanda and Crash are currently placing above 2001: A Space Oddyssey, nothing against Don Cheadle who's a fine actor but it just proves that the popular taste is a joke.
Das Boot-Wolfgang Petersen sucks.
The Sixth Sense is a complete and total hackwork, the movie is bathed in an ugly unwatchable brown which is ridiculous since it's shot by Tak Fujimoto who knows better, the film tells us the plot twist in the first five minutes since it thinks we're stupid.
I wouldn't piss on a reel of Gladiator to put out a fire, Ridley Scott is a complete hack. Alien is his best film, light years ahead of everything else he's done...Blade Runner is a distant second and everything else is near unwatchable and GODDAMN BORING. I wonder how people keep convincing themselves to like his work.
Finding Neverland being on the top 250 is just laughable, I mean, COME ON.
I like King Kong 33 and it deserves to be on the list but it's nowhere near King Kong 2005.
Spiderman 2 is the safest and least threatening of all possible superhero films, I never felt overly excited or anxious during the movie which means that it's poor filmmaknig.
And I'm deeply, deeply hurt that "Ran" and "Raging Bull" could ever in a million years be considered as undeserving of the top 250 list. I feel like those two films should be in everybody's top 20, but I know how Alex feels about Kurosawa so I'll back off. I can't rewatch "Ran" without finding new things to appreciate about it or just being entranced by it's beauty.
"Ridley Scott is a complete hack. Alien is his best film, light years ahead of everything else he's done...Blade Runner is a distant second and everything else is near unwatchable and GODDAMN BORING. I wonder how people keep convincing themselves to like his work."
Are you serious? Bladerunner is plain birlliant. Period. Blackhawk Down is underrated, IMO. A hack he is definitely not.
Dang, I keep forgetting my login for this.
oops, did I actually write "birlliant?" I apologize for that (been reading way too many internet postings, I think - the bad spelling catches).
Bladerunner is plain BRILLIANT, is what I meant to say.
Are you serious? Bladerunner is plain birlliant. Period.
"Tell me you love me!"
"What the... get away from me!"
*slappity-slap slap*
"TELL ME YOU LOVE ME!!!"
"Uh... okay!"
*cue romantic music, gag reflex*
Blade Runner feels like a big uninspired collection of pretty matte paintings and surface fascination with Japanese culture. There's no satire in the film, there's no values, it exists simply to be pretty. And I never have really been a part of the cult of Harrison Ford, never really saw Han Solo as the hero of the Star Wars films, I've always just found him...bland.
I think Blade Runner maybe just sucks outside of a movie theater, I'll go to it's theatrical run this coming fall to give it a...I guess this would be a fifth chance but I'm just not impressed. By the way I've seen both cuts and the one that's on DVD is AWFUL, the Criterion one with the narration and the happy ending clicks in a way the "Legend" cut does not, and "Legend" is an atrocious incomprehensible film, the ***1/2 for it on this site is inexplicable.
By "Legend" cut i'm referring to Warner's current DVD of the film with the Unicorn nonsense allegedly an unused F/X sequence from "Legend"
Bear in mind, Jared, that ***1/2 is for the Director's Cut of Legend, and I think I even said within the review that it's not a masterpiece, just a masterpiece in comparison to the US theatrical version. (What did I give the latter, *1/2 or something?) And dare I say it's better-looking than any of the Lord of the Rings movies.
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